English
FrançaisI am thinking about buying in orelle a bit out of the way but linked to the trois vallee- the price is good but a couple of things worry me. Its not ski in ski out and is linked to val thorens by telecabin that can be prone to closure in high wind. The development is around 700 km from the lift.The place is really quiet. Anybody any thoughts?
Hello everyone,
I am a really P****d off owner of an Orelle apartment. I DO HAVE LATEST NEWS! I did quite a lot of complaining in June and got my rent arrears paid - fortunately I speak resonable French which helps a lot!! Subsequently no rent so two quarters in arrears and having to fund a French mortgage - a position which I am sure a number of you are in. I got the e:mail of the head of finance from a contact in the reservations department. I sent a letter in my best politest French and got a reply on Friday!! Here is the bad news..... basically (if you can believe them!) CELA are a another victim of the credit crunch and are now forming a holding company to refinance - they mention oa sum of 13 Million Euros. It should be in place for early New Year from which point rents will be paid "en temps et en heure". Personally I am very sceptical and there was no mention of rent in arrears!!
Further to the above, has anybody noticed that they have raised their tariffs by up to 150% in some instances so your holiday budget doesn't actually get you much - just fantastic!! They are still taking bookings by the way - if they can get any at the ridiculous prices they are charging. I think they will get what they can this winter and go bust so action needs to be taken pdq in my opinion. Orelle has a lot going for it and I think it could be a success with a decent management company in place - CELA have been rubbish from day 1 and have got the communication skills of an angry rattlesnake!
If anybody wants a bit more info, please feel free to drop me a line or phone on 07921 369152. I for one would be happy to join in with a residents action group to kick out these idiots
Got that off my chest! Cheers, Dave T (aka Portred)
Hi all,
We too are in the same position, no rent since January and due to running it out of our french account and being a tad busy in credit crunch GB, erm, didn't notice until a couple of months back. All correspondence to CELA ignored so last night I got onto the local ski school contacts whom we know well and the local office de tourisme - they are also going to get involved and speak to the guys at CELA and have notified City Hall too. Not sure if this will actually apply any further pressure, however it doesn't do the local economy any good which they ought to be concerned about.
Can you keep the forum updated with ay further news and how we might progress this en-masse.
Thanks
Ros & Gary
Hi,
Have just discovered this forum (obviously a bit slow..)
We also own an appartment in Orelle, in the same position as everybody else, sending increasingly pissed off emails to Cela.
Please add me to any groups.
robbriard@hotmail.com
Rob
Hi everyone, Also in same position although i have been paid for July and am now pushing strongly for Oct payment . Disquieting news from "portred" as my french is apaulling but on reading other forum boards on this site, this is how it all starts and the quicker we look at legal options the better! Lets keep talking Tim
bmi_SafeAddOnload(bmi_load,"bmi_orig_img",0);//-->
As a potential buyer, against the potential drawacks above, there are some advantages:
Pricing reflects location but should be climate change proof as the telecabin gives it access to whole of the Three Valleys area
Not much scope for further development so less risk of over supply in this location
I don't understand the point about telecabin. Most places you access runs via a lift/telecabin and would have same issues with wind.
The main downside seems to me the lack of apres-ski - as a resort it will only appeal to people just there for the skiing. Interesting to see if more cafes/restaurants appear
Any further thoughts?
Hi all
I also have problems with CELA, albeit at another development - Residence Les Balcon de Recoin.
I have owned the property for the last 15 months or so but have not been paid rent for the last 6. CELA keep promising to pay but every date so far has been missed.
I investigated a French lawyer today but he is asking for Euro 1,400 to investigate etc., which is way over what I want to pay.
I would be interested in joint action for sure. My email is cameron_maultby@yahoo.com. Please keep me in the loop.
Cameron
Hi Cameron, You should contact bertrand by clicking on the link at the top of this page - he has helped out many leaseback owners with rent arrears (especially residhotel leaseback owners).
Thanks
Nick
Orelle
I have been in contact with Bertrand who is well known on these forum pages for help solving leaseback problems. He stated that CELA has not replied to his telephone calls.
The following points are from a E mail i received from him
Contact the owners you know (please provide the contact names) and we will create a small group,
· Send me the contact details of the syndic (common expenses) and we will ask him the list of all owners in order to create a group,
· Probably send a commandement de payer.
FoFor Bertrand to carry on this work for us,he asks that the owners to use his company for french accountacy, which is a cost that you have to pay anyway.I for one will use Bertrand and his company C'est la Vie. I would appreciate any thought from other owners and whether they would use Bertrand.
I beI believe that the way forward is by acting as a group.
ThaThanks Mark
E mail-captbelch@hotmail.com
I
F
n contact with Ber
Add my name to the growing list of unhappy owners at Orelle. I did manage to get the rent due in August paid, but nothing since. I believe the only way forward is to get all the owners acting together. I also think that the local community in Orelle have a huge interest in the development's success and may be helpful.
Hi
Please add us to the list of those unhappy with Cela. We were paid in August and are now pushing for the October payment. We purchased through Erna Low, who are supposed to have a good reputation - they do appear to be trying to help, probably because it will tarnish their reputation if Cela does not perform; however it's debatable whether they will have any success. Apparently they have a meeting with Cela in France today - we'll let you know if we learn anything.
We're happy to join forces with you all.
Looking at the forum comments on other developments, many of the leaseback management companies appear to be in trouble. Unfortunately they don't make pleasant reading. In the UK it is possible to impose a winding up order ( or notice of one ) on a company. This forces them to either pay up or admit that they can't - if it's the latter then they have to go into receivership. I don't know whether the same arrangement applies in France.
At this stage it might be better to know the worst. If Cela are in trouble then the longer it goes on the more we may stand to lose.
If you want to contact us to discuss further - griffith@cfhbuildwas.wanadoo.co.uk.
Hi all, after phoning Cela every day untill they are as sick of me as i am of them, they apparently sent out payments with an explanation letter last Friday(18th) . To date i have received nothing (what a surprise!) , so before taking a gun to them i am checking if anybody out there has received anything ! Regards to all, Tim Reeves
Seamus,
I wish I had spoken to you before investing in a property at Orelle. Cela, the management company, have failed to pay our rental income for the last few months. We bought on a leaseback scheme and it's not proved too fruitful so far due to the exchange rate / economic downturn.
Have you heard of the Cela Group or any feedback on them?
By the way, the skiing is very good and the lift, so far, has been quick and reliable. The drive from Chambery airport is only 45mins which is pretty good too.
Thanks
Stuart
Orelle-Cela
Receive payment for second quarter of 2009 and letter from CELA. regarding late payment.
This is good news.
Mark Belcher
Hi Mark
Nothing received yet but we are awaiting the payment due in October - presumably you were waiting for the payment before this?
I have exchanged emails with Bertrand ( the man who advertises on this forum and seems to have received a good press in other areas of this forum ). He seems to believe that Cela are in trouble and suggests a 'commandement de payer'. I am trying to find out what this costs and what it obliges Cela to do. This might be something to try if cheques do not arrive - or arrive and bounce!
Sorry Mark - I didn't read your previous post and seem to be going over ground already covered by you. We'd be happy to go with Bertrand if this stands a chance of solving the problem. Please clarify - have you just been paid the rent due in July or that due in October? We were paid ( after complaining ) the July rent in August and are now waiting for the October payment.
Alison and Michael
Just wondering if anyone else got corrospondance and a cheque from CELA. I am blue in the face from contacting these people and just before Christmas I was told that there were cheques in the post. I have received nothing yet. Trying to figure out if they are spoofing !
Hi all,
We are having the same problem, got paid in July (2 months late) and nothing since.
My e-mail: d.gusic@blueyonder.co.uk
We are happy to go with the rest - legal action of necessery.
I'm new to this forum but it looks like you're all having the same problem as us.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
We are now two quarters behind with the rent payments and are struggling to get any response. Yesterday we were given this email address srp@cela.fr which we are told will provide a reply in English.
We were planning to ski in February and tried to get them to take the apartment rental out of the outstanding income payments. They’ve not been able to understand this concept!
We were told in November that they had raised new finance of 20 million euros for the new year, no sign of this yet though.
At the same time we were promised payment by the end of November but are still waiting.
Any updates of info would be a big help.
Matt
Hello all,
I have just returned from two weeks in Italy so I am a little behind on the latest news although I had a chat with dgusic (2nd last post above this one) this afternoon. I received a cheque before Xmas with a letter that was consistent with the refinancing story I had previously got from CELA in November direct from their finance director (see my earlier post). I paid the cheque into my UK account just after Xmas so we will see whether or not it will bouce pretty soon!!! I am guessing that they would not have bothered sending out cheques if they were just about to go belly up - I am trying to be hopeful here!!
Incidentally MattandLeza, I did manage to get CELA to accept a booking in lieu of money owed - I did this by sending a politely worded e:mail in French which may have helped. I seem to have established a good rapport with Celine in the bookings section so maybe she took pity on me!!!
Juding by the more recent posts above, it would seem to me that we are all a little unfocused at the minute and not everybody is on the e:mail circulation list that Jo/Ros started a while back.
I agree with an earlier post from Mark that Bertrand seems our best bet for a concerted JOINT action. If everybody else agrees, perhaps we should look to getting a meeting set up with all those who can make it somehwere in central UK sometime in Feb?? By this time we should have a better idea whether CELA are really in trouble or not - incidentally Jo did you get anywhere with your French notaire who was checking out the state of CELAs finances???
Cheers4 now,
Dave T (aka Portred)
Thanks Dave,
Just today we have got confirmation of our booking with it charged against the outstanding rent. At last!
We will be there 13-20 Feb so we can report back on how busy it is.
We would be interested in a meeting sometime after we get back.
Matt and Leza
Seamus
What conclusion did you come to on Orelle? I've been there and don't think it will ever be a proper resort.
thanks for the advice.
I got this letter by e-mail today:
Canet en Roussillon, 15th of January 2010 <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />
Dear Sir, Madam and co-owners,
For the last few months, CELA’s group has been facing cash flow issues, which in the short term did restrain us from making income rental payments in due time.
CELA group dedication to make payment on time has been our main focus. Today, for the first time in the group history, we are unable to respect our commitment to you.
Those of you who have been with us for a long time know it very well...
However, in order to explain the current situation and the main reasons behind it all, we would like to pass on, in a transparency way, the following information.
- In 2007, prior to the Global Financial crisis, CELA HOTELS – RESORTS – SPAS had many projects on hand and decided to set up a legal structure to ensure a smooth running of many planned operations. Today, with a 13 Million Euros capital share, we’ve created the CELA Finances Holding. The implementation of this new chapter, essential to the group wellbeing and to strengthen the value of our assets to the detriment of an immediate liquidity, required the input of important funds contribution from our shareholders equity.
- On the other hand, large numbers of individuals, partners and companies have been “drastically” hit by the financial crisis. The outcome of the matter has as you might expect put many projects on hold and delayed due payments from debtors. Consequently, payments delays have multiply by four our need in cash flow.
In order to face our financial commitments, we’ve approached, in anticipation, financial institutes to help us going through this rather tough situation. Surprisingly, we only received partial support from their side.
- With almost 40 Million Euros worth of assets, and a strong partners and loyal customers’ network, The CELA group is built on solid grounds. 2009 season results were overwhelming, and 2010 forecast looks quite impressive so far. However, financial institutions will only help us once we reverse the situation on a positive way.
- As a result, debt recovery and financial planning, with the banks, took longer than expected, hence why we couldn’t keep you up-to-date with very much awaited answers from the banks.
Today, we’ve decided to back ourselves up and rely on our own resources rather than waiting for banks to respond which as we know will not be in the near future. Thus, CELA’s shareholders have decided to dig deep by providing extra personal funds for the group.
2010 will be the year of savings, so we can ensure the continuation of the group adventure. No “new” investment, rigorous staff management and the possible revision of former lease agreement in order to minimize costs having an effect on our activity.
From the different issues raised above, and according to our current resources, this situation has led us to present before you the following 4 alternative solutions:
1. Payment instalments, 25 % of the 3rd and 4th quarters carried out on four quarters in 2010 (January-April-July-October).
The first transfer will be made upon reception of the filled coupon below.
2. Imputation of your rental income on holidays, valid on all the CELA resorts on preferential conditions.
This proposition, first vocation of the tourist residence, which is not only a financial product, has been frequently requested by our co-owners.
3. Imputation of your rental income on the Time-share fees.
Valid for time-share holders only.
4. Termination of your lease on February 15th, 2010.
According to the cancellation clause which appears in your lease.
To answer any questions or queries you may have, we’ve put a new department in place so they can answer your needs and deal with your requests. You can contact them either by:
By e- mail : srp@cela.fr
By post, at the following address :
CELA HOTELS RESORTS SPAS,
Service Relation Propriétaires
Malibu Village, les hauts de Canet,
66140 Canet en Roussillon
France
We really hope this letter answered some of your questions, in the meantime if you need further information, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Yours Sincerely,
CELA HOTELS RESORTS SPAS
Service Relation Propriétaires
Hi
WE have a property in orelle and have not been paid since march. Does anyone else have the same problem or know what is happening with CELA. We are having difficulty getting any information out of them at present. Are they going bust?
Would appreciate a response from anyone with similar issue
Hi all, trying to decipher the letter,does option1 mean that they will pay the current quarter installment( Jan 2010) PLUS 25% of the outstanding amount owed fromquarter 3@4 of 2009? and then further25% payments on top of next 3 quarters ? Whats everybodies concensus? regards Tim Reeves
Good evening everyone - or rather it was a good evening until I read the CELA letter. At this moment, I must confess I don't know quite to make of it. I think I would prefer to see the French version and do a decent translation for myself!! I don't know what they mean by option 1 - either it is 25% of quarters 3 and 4 from 2009 then as per normal for 2010 OR (worringly), only 25% of 2009 owed money then 25% onwards. That would need to be clarified pdq. If it is the former, I could probably live with it IF I could be convinced that CELA are being perfectly genuine (I doubt it somehow!). The latter would obviously be unacceptable since many people would then be unable to afford the mortgages on their properties. The other options don't sound that enticing either. Termination of your lease would be the worst option unless all owners did the same and we had another management company lined up. Some people terminating their leases would probably be bad news for them since you would have an essentially valueless unmanaged property - not a good thought!
I need a large glass of wine now!
Hi all,
This is my response to Cela:
Hi,<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Can you please clarify options 1 and 4.
It is not clear if you are going to pay 25% of the outstanding balance in each quarter of 2010 including regular payment of rent for four quarters of 2010? If this is the case I am willing to accept option 1.
If you cancel the leaseback agreement what happens to the VAT and rental income, do we have an option to go with another agancy? As far as I remember I purchased this apartment with “guaranteed” rental income as specified in the brochure. I do not see how this is “guaranteed” if you terminate the leaseback agreement.
I have also noticed that you increased the price on all apartments by 50%. How do you expect to rent anything at that price? Do you rally think that someone will pay that much? I do not think so!!! That just proves to me that you are totally incompetent. If you ask me the only way out of this situation is special offers and reduced price to aim for 100% of capacity rental in months Dec-April. You really do not have a clue about tourism, do you??? If I had a choice I would have run away from you long time ago.
I am becoming increasingly frustrated about the whole situation and if this is not resolved to my satisfaction I will instruct solicitors to act on my behalf to initiate legal action against the developer, your company and the French government for obvious deception. Leaseback is nothing but a scam so developers, leaseback companies, the government and the banks can make many on us and at the same time put us in a situation where you do not have a choice for go for an alternative.
In any case money owed to me for 2009 quarters 3 and 4 is overdue and I expect this to be paid to me asap one way or another. Please note that I am not interested in any holiday time in lieu so option 3 is out of the question.
I would appreciate if you can respond today with your answers.
Regards
Good morning everyone
I am also a British owner in Orelle in the same predicament. I too did not receive rent for 2 quarters in 2009 and following an email exchange, I received a payment for 1 quarter in December. Thus I still have 1 payment outstanding and January is due (unsure if this is being paid).
Yesterday, I received 2 letters, one from M. Laurent Georges and the other from CELA (dgusic posted on the 16th Jan) detailing the options available. My immediate thought was option 4, but am also concerned about the implications of this. I will be emailing CELA today for more info.
I would be very interested in all of us getting together at some point in the near future. I will be in Orelle from 6th Feb for a week, so will be loooking for some clarification whilst I'm there.
I will also be contacting M. Georges today and will let you all know any outcomes.
It would definately make sense for us to show a united front on this.
rgds
Sean
Morning again,
It would be useful if we all chose to use the same thread - there are two running now - I suggest this one since it is probably the most widely read.......... Anyhow, I have just registered on the French forum and am awaiting a password. When I get it I will post a message of support. I have read through all their threads and they are just as enraged and confused as their UK comrades - the whole thing stinks.
As I have said to people a few times now, option 4 would be bad news if only a few people picked it. CELA are probably hoping this will be the case to reduce their overall liability. However, when those few are cut off from CELA administration, their property would not be serviced, have no independent water or electricity supply, would not be insured etc etc etc. NOT GOOD!! However, if all the owners united and chose option 4, then that would be a different matter and CELA would effectively be xxxed at Orelle - a nice thought but not necessarily a practical outcome. FIRST of all we need to unite then decide a sensible course of action (although I appreciate timescales are short)
Must get back to work!
Dave T
Skip...has this M. Georges sent out a general letter to UK owners - I have not received anything?? There is also quite a large e:mail community developing in the UK outside of this forum which you should be aware of.
Dave
It would appear that M. George is trying to contact all UK owners. He indicates that he has the list of them. The sentiment is to create a group of owners and links to the french forum are provided. The letter I received was dated 11 Jan.
Please add me to the email community. I can be contacted on:
sean_skippen@hotmail.com
Sean,
Thanks for the message. I have received my clearance for the French Site. I will use my best French to leave a message later. No doubt I will receive a communique from M. George as well as some point although I am concerned that time is running very short - again I would not be at all surprised if CELA have planned that particular aspect as well!!
I will contact the others in the e:mail community to include you in any discussions. I am somewhat worried that things have gone a little quiet on our side recently when in fact events are starting to accelerate and conspire against us.
Keep in touch.....my direct e:mail is daveet@ntlworld.com
I have also brought in Orelle and have not been paid since March. The company seems to be trading.
I would appreciate any news regarding Orelle,as i have had no replies to my E mails.
If no news received soon we need to form a owners group and start legal action for non payment. I had this problem with another leaseback that i own.
unhappy and poor owner.
FYI: here is a link from another thread (written by Fabien Cortez) which should be of interest. Self-management now seems an option without having to repay VAT.
http://www.solicitor.fr/French_leasebacks_in_trouble.pdf
Better news!! Potentially!! I just picked this up from our French bloggers: a calrification from CELA:
Bonjour ,
je viens de recevoir un mail de CELA repondant a ma question sur les versements a venir je cite la réponse :
"
Après réception du coupon-réponse : paiement de 25% de T3 et T4 2009
Avril 2010 : paiement de 25% de T3 et T4 2009 + paiement intégral de T1 2010
Juillet 2010 : paiement de 25% de T3 et T4 2009 + paiement intégral de T2 2010
Octobre 2010 : paiement de 25% de T3 et T4 2009 + paiement intégral de T3 2010
Janvier 2011 : paiement intégral de T4 2010.
Cordialement.
Service Relation Propriétaires
I guess this is fairly self-explanatory but if anyone needs a translation, let me know. Why couldn't they have said this in the first place one wonders!!! Anyne else out there received the same clarifiation??
Dave T
E- mail has just arrived stating same info !! Looks more promising but i agree its like pulling teeth . Regards Tim
Joanna / Mark,
I am another unhappy and unpaid owner of a flat at Cela Orelle. I would also be interested in joining forces. I fear the worst about Cela...
James
Hi all,<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
I got the same e-mail and I will accept option 1.
Regards
dgusic
Dear Sir,
If you choose the option 1 :
After reception of the reply coupon : payment of 25% of Q3 and Q4 2009
April 2010 : payment of 25% of Q3 and Q4 2009 + full payment of Q1 2010
July 2010 : payment of 25% of Q3 and Q4 2009 + full payment of Q2 2010
Oct 2010 : payment of 25% of Q3 and Q4 2009 + full payment of Q3 2010
January 2011 : normal payments resume in accordance with lease.
Hoping to have answered your expectations
Yours faithfully.
Service Relation Propriétaires.
Hold your horse guys............. I have just got this from the French mob. THIS IS IMPORTANT............
A tous les co-propriétaires des Eaux d'Orelle :
J'ai lu toutes vos réponses sur ce site, tout d'abord je me présente (au delà de mon pseudo... Je ne peux vous donner mon nom : consigne de ce site internet) : je suis le président de la (future) association des co-propriétaires des eaux d'orelle : j'ai déposé tout le dossier de constitution de cette assoc auprès de la préfecture du rhône (j'habite à côté de Lyon) aujourd'hui même.
J'invite tous les co-pro d'Orelle à me joindre par message perso sur ce site, je leur transférerai mon mail perso. Je suis également l'un des trois co-pro à vous avoir écrit la semaine dernière (cherchez dans le courrier qui habite dans le 69 parmis les 3 : vous aurez mon nom & prénom !).
Nous sommes déjà 41 co-pro à correspondre par mail (39 Français & 2 Anglais), tous volontaires pour adhérer à notre assoc et nous défendre ensemble.
En parallèle à la création de notre association, nous sommes en train de choisir un cabinet d'avocats (expert en immobilier locatif) pour nour représenter et qui formulera une réponse bcp plus sérieuse & légalement valable (vs le courrier/courriel "farfelu" du groupe CELA en date du 15/01/10) au groupe CELA.
Mon conseil : prenez contacte avec moi (si ce n'est déjà fait suite à notre courrier), n'envoyer surtout pas le coupon réponse de CELA (absolument pas clair et juridiquement non valable), attendez d'avoir un courrier "conseillé" par les avocats de notre association.
Plus nous serons nombreux, plus nous aurons de chances de nous faire entendre que ce soit pour le "lissage" de la dette de 2009 sur 2010 ou pour la future re-négociation des baux commerciaux (le message de CELA est clair dans les dernières lignes de la première page de leur courrier...)
Alors un mot d'ordre : contactez moi au plus vite !
Enfin, et pour info, nous avons écrit à tous les co-pro d'Orelle soit :
113 Français
49 Anglais
En attente de vos retours rapides & nombreux,
Merci
I can do a full translation of this if anyone is struggling but in a few words this is a note (presumably from the guy who has been writing to all the owners) decarling himself to be the leader of a new Orelle residents assoc. They have placed the constitution for this association in front of the relevant authorities this morning. You will see they have all the owners contact details and appear to be arming themselves with the appropriate legal support to couteract what they see as the "whacky" proposals from CELA. The advice at this point is above all to SEND NOTHING BACK to CELA because their proposals are not legal AND they say that the real message is clear in the last lines of the first page of their letter (i.e "possible revision of former lease agreement to minimise costs"). They want everyone to contact them as soon as possible upon receipt of their letter.
You will see there are actually many more French owners than UK (not the other way round as claimed by a previous post I have read). This all looks to be heading like a juggernaut out of our (the UK mob) control........I AM NOT SURE WHAT THE BEST THING TO DO IS AT THIS JUNCTURE. I am inclined to join them but I would like some more feedback from others. I will e:mail this out to the group established by Jo/Ros as well.
Will there be an end to this!!!!
Regards,
Dave T
Great that makes 4 people now who are having problems with Cela
My email is joannaramsdale@iib.ws.
If I can get everyones emails we can then start to liaise as a group and start legal action if needed.
Are you happy to send me your details and then I will attempt to coordinate us all
jo
Hi All, there appears no easy answer to this but the proof will be if they honour these next payments. I personally will sign Option 1 as i donot see a mid term solution with either legal representation (ie take option 4 or donot reply and have the lease cancelled and then you are in the hands of lawyers,ummmmmm or hope that another company will take over from Cela ( In this enviroment ?? and or for a reduced rental percentage -- which appears to be the worry of our French co owners). For those with no mortgage to pay i can understand the sentiment not to play ball and maybe want to go it alone or want to try to find another company to take over but if you read the other forum boards this is just not happening and Cela is just one in hundreds of companies that are just trying to survive( note i am not being to symphathetic to Cela as they could have communicated this long ago with much greater transparency) Well thats my tuppence worth so good luck to all !!!
All,
This seems to be gathering pace!
We too are tempted by option 1 but there are lots of unanswered questions.
<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
On the subject of the VAT (TVA) read Mutley’s post half way down this page http://www.frenchleaseback.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=387 &PN=1&TPN=7
Especially the bit about the TVA. If he’s right it sounds as if the important thing is that you are trying to rent out the property at market rates.
Sean – we arrive in Orelle early PM on the 13th, maybe we could meet up?
Dave - Please add us to the mailing list mattd@onetel.com
Matt and Leza
Dave, please add me to the list:
damon_m_roberts@hotmail.com
I am also going to speak to my UK notary and see if he has any advice, will post here with anything useful.
Trying to pull everyone into the UK mailing list - I seem to be missing contact mail for speccy and yorkieboy for the orelle development - can you post here and I'll add you in
Ta
Ros
Hi Ros, contact e-mail as follows, specsavers@eurotelbroadband.com , bit of a mouth full but it will come directly to me . thanks for the heads up . Tim
Hi Ros,
If you copy your list to me, I will review it because a few people have sent me personal e:mails with e:mail addresses although I think you may have them all already.
We need to ver quickly come to sort of consensus on whether we are going to accept CELA option 1 or decide to side completely with the French Group who seem to going full steam ahead for major confontration!! The French will, I think, be counting on our support - this is a really difficult decision as outlined by a few previous posts!!
My personal opinion is that it may well be a mistake to accept anything from CELA that they may then be able to use against us in the future. On the other hand, I also appreciate that people want some money pdq. As I say......DIFFICULT!
Regards,
Dave T
Have done so this morning Dave - my last e-mail is everyone bar Tim above that I have. Thx.
Not sure the French are going all out for war - as per the note from Laurent I copied you, he sounds as if they are willing to go with Option 1 provided we do not close any doors and Cela stick to it (I'm trying to think positive, perhaps naive of me), and also that we do not open unpleasant new avenues of activity by then somehow condoning the renegotiations on rental income alluded to in the letter. Once they have a view on that from their lawyers it is my belief that they will advise the total group and we can respond as a single entity if we have joined the association he is forming...a bit of a waiting game I expect for the next week.
Tim I'll forward you my earlier note. Best, Ros
I am concerned for you guys and where you are at.
If you agree to a re-payment structure you are back in the fold of the lease and moving forward you have no rights what so ever.
How well can you trust this management company? What convinces you that this money can be repaid moving forward? What fortunes of change are going to allow the management company to repay what you are owed and rents in line with your lease? What interest are you going to be paid for your money owed? What are you going to do if they default on the new payment schedule? When you were not getting paid how ammenable were these people in contacting you and keeping you informed? How many other management companies do you know of that have restructured debt and kept up with repayments? What security are you being offered?
As you may well be agreeing to defer what is owed until payment can be made at a future date, I do not know how this leaves you as a creditor in case the business goes bankrupt (would need to consult on that one). This agreement may therefore well need to be undertaken with legal representation. This is a big risk! My own thoughts are that at present you are creditors but if you agree to the new deal you will not be due to the way the deal is being struck.
If the management company is so furtunate to have turned around its business it would only be honourable to allow you an easy exit route on default also written in to the agreement?
It looks to me like if you sign now you are giving them another summer season of rents with last summers already deffered.
Its your choice but something to think about.
Mutley
Hi Joanna,
I'm on stuart@astsigns.com
I'm a joint owner with James Tarran.
Have Cela allowed you to book use of your apartment?
Thanks
Stuart
Hi
I have a number of people now who have responded.
I will give it a week and then start collating the team!
jo
Not sure if this helps is:
French leasebacks in trouble: What's changing in 2010. http://www.solicitor.fr/French_leasebacks_in_trouble.pdf
Matt
Pages